Leaders Forum is changing its name into "No Agenda Club Turku"

We will start putting any public material we produce into a new blog http://noagendaclub.blogspot.com, serving as a joint blog for other similar groups as well. This blog will not be updated anymore. It will serve as an archive for some time, let's see for how long it's needed?



Our learning journey continues. See you on http://noagendaclub.blogspot.com !

Riitta Lusenius: Mindfulness 30.4.2010

Thank you all of coming and BEING last Friday :)

Yes as Michael said, in Finnish culture we are still not allowed to just BE, also be silent together. So lets us sink into the present moment, all senses wide open!

Good way to get there is the 3 minutes breathing pause we practised:
Step 1. Recognise how you are right now: thoughts, feelings, bodily sensations.
Step 2. Consentrate fully to your breathing and the sensations in the body when the breath moves in and out and let the breath bring you to the present moment.
Step 3. Expand the field of your awareness around your breathing, so that in addition to the sensations of the breath it includes the sensations of the body as whole. FEEL WHOLE and ENJOY :)

- Riitta

26.3.2010 - Mike Berry: "Exercise of sharing everyday work experiences"

Mike lead us to a field (minefield, or mindfield) of positive/negative silence and positive/negative talk. We looked for, and also found some, examples of situations where we've experienced different types of silence and talk, and discussed what could be learned from that.

The key question seemed to be: What in me is stopping me from understanding the logic of the "others"? This seems to be very well in tune with Non-violent Communication, which we have discussed earlier on this forum - and which we decided to bring back and do again in the near future.

We also discussed trust - our most popular topic. Should we trust others after they have done something we value - or should we just trust people, before they have done anything? Perhaps great trust creates a space where great achievements happen?

Another interesting comment: "Assumptions are the mother of great mistakes." Mike gave us some Finnish conversaton rules, one of them being "One should not discuss the obvious" - this means that we Finns assume that it's obvious for everyone, what is obvious. But is it? Perhaps we should check what's obvious to whom - we might find very different understandings, especially if there are foreigners involved? Assuming and not checking might be dangerous.




Here are the rules Mike has found: (© Michael Berry/Turku School of Economics/Autumn 09)

One example of Finnish communication rules/norms created by over 1000 Finnish students and managers

The Finnish conversation rules below describe norms that are generally considered appropriate and feasible guidelines among Finns in everyday public situations. It is important to keep in mind that communication rules/ norms have positive and negative sides in different social contexts in every culture, and norms are also interpreted in positive and negative ways when compared with norms in other cultures. There are also individual, gender, regional differences, etc., as well as differences between formal and informal communication in every culture. People who avoid violating cultural norms in different situational contexts are respected by others in their local environment but often misunderstood by people from other cultures.

These ‘mainstream’ Finnish norms have something in common: don't waste words, listen with ‘active’ silence and add concrete value to the conversation. They are also rooted in Finnish comfort with quietness, extensive reliance on non-verbal communication (full of active silence which can contribute to being socially connected), and respect for the privacy of others. The role of non-verbal communication and the tone of the voice can be different in different local environments. Therefore, different ways of communicating can also bring confusion, even discomfort, within a national culture. Rarely sharing views with others and being too silent for negative reasons, violates these Finnish communication norms. The socially connected active silent non-verbal communication is powerful within Finland but often invisible to people from cultures uncomfortable with silence.

1. Julkisuudessa ei saisi haastaa riitaa. Ei ole sopivaa mainita aihetta, josta seuraa konflikti, ellei aihe ole tärkeä, hyvin perusteltu ja persoonaton. / When in public one should not be contentious, i.e. it is inappropriate to mention a topic that will arouse conflict unless it very important, one has very good arguments and they are impersonal.

2. Itsestäänselvyyksistä keskusteleminen on turhaa. / One should not discuss the obvious.

3. Puhutaan sellaista, joka on toisille relevanttia. / One should speak about things that are relevant for others.

4. Sosiaalisissa tilanteissa pitäisi havainnoida, kuunnella ja ajatella ennen puhumista. / In social situations one should observe, listen and think before speaking.

5. Puhumaansa täytyy sitoutua, tarkoittaa mitä sanoo ja seisoa sanojensa takana. ‘Puheestaan ihminen tunnetaan’. / One should be committed to what one says. You are known to be who you are by what you say.

6. Myöhempi kanssakäyminen perustuu siihen, mitä on sanottu. Kuuntelijoiden pitäisi kuunnella tarkasti ja valita omat sanansa huolellisesti. / What one says becomes the basis for subsequent relations. People should listen carefully and formulate what they say with care.

7. Asiaperustelut ovat vakuuttavia/uskottavia. Tunneperusteluilla on vain vähän vaikutusta etenkin tärkeistä asioista päätettäessä. / Arguments based on facts are convincing/believable. Arguments based on (and showing) personal feelings have little influence, especially when important decisions are being made.

8. Vaatimattomuus kaunistaa. Omista saavutuksista ei pitäisi puhua oma-aloitteisesti. Toinen voi tuoda ne esiin ja silloin niistä voi kertoa. / Modesty brings respect. One should not actively draw attention to one’s competence and achievements without being requested to do so.

Good luck to all, be positive - either in silence or by talking!

TingTing Lin, Natural Time

I would like to cite the words of the Nia co-founder, Debbie Rosas Stewart, as our summary. As you see, I learnt and reflected a lot about her words during the discussion.

"Natural Time is fluid, non-linear, radial, and expansive. It is centered in now, not tomorrow, not yesterday, not based on deadlines, but now. It re-connects us to the cyclical rhythms of nature, the rhythms that unite us as human beings and unite us with all Life forms. The same basic movement of rising and falling, of inhaling and exhaling, of birthing and dying, run through every body of life. We are connected by the cyclical rhythms that move through us all.

One of the most powerful principles behind Natural Time and Nia is individuation and autonomy, the ability to move at a pace and depth that feels right to you. It is an energy field that physically feels fuller, less hurried."

With Joy,
Tingting

We had a great session, the flow was vivid and natural, thank you all! I add your Inspiration Notes:

Reflective - inner time needed!
Slow - fluent - energy.
How to take responsibility to speak out your own rhythm - at home, at work?
Knowing and understanding more about "time" gives us new perspectives to better understand the relationship between the self and time.
Do not forget your body! It can tell you your natural time! Your mind has been trained to follow society's time!
God created time, but he/she didn't mention busyness.
Very enlightening - it would be nice to hear more oriental insights from Tingting.
I learned that I need to listen to my body even more.
Awareness of your body, now. Energy in the universe, now.
Do not accept timelines and due dates without questioning their relevance.
Self-reflection.
Depression is healthy, if you give it time. Depression = being slow, stopping, letting go, contact with oneself.
Linear time limits you - natural time sets you free.
You can follow your natural time everywhere, because your body is the clock.
Natural time reminded me of a Zen-saying: "When I'm tired, I sleep. When I'm hungry, I eat."
Time is fluid, and flows like water.

Best wishes,
Pekka

From Tao Te Ching, verse 27, translation by Steven Mitchell... Happy New Year 2010!

A good traveler has no fixed plans
and is not intent upon arriving.
A good artist lets his intuition
lead him wherever it wants.
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts
and keeps his mind open to what is.

Thus the Master is available to all people
and doesn't reject anyone.
He is ready to use all situations
and doesn't waste anything.
This is called embodying the light.

What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.

Brett Salahub's Discussion Topic for 2009-11-26 Thursday: Gurdjieff

List of insightful statements and questions from this session:

We are all arriving at the same pier (dock) coming from quite diverse locations
How important is the search to you? Could it be questioning?
How can we be curious? How can we be empty?
Journey vs the destination?
Number of paths? Being aware of new paths?
When discussing ask: Tell back what I just told you.
We are not what we think we are: Who is the true me?
Wisdom in seeing insignificance of ourselves as a physical being. We often deny this fact that our physical existence is insignificance.
Suggestion: listen how you introduce yourself, do you say "I am Paavo", or do you say "My name is Paavo"? It may reveal how you identify with your name, instead of your real self.
The mind may lie, but the body cannot lie! [SO LISTEN TO THE BODY!]

Few Gurdjieff concepts were touched upon:

We are not who we think we are and we lie to ourselves.

This was talked about in a variety of ways. It was easy to see how whole countries, and societies can lie to themselves, by looking at the political scene and wars and such. However it was discussed that we can lie to ourselves at an individual level.

Before breaking into groups and talking about how we can lie to ourselves, Brett read this quote: "Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you think you are, that you overestimate yourself, therefore that you lie to yourself. That you lie to yourself always, every moment, all day long, your whole life." (This challenging "4th way" quote is by Mme de Salzmann, pupil of Gurdjieff for nearly 30 years)

Multiple I's, or programs that run automatically if we are not aware of them, and they affect our observations of our reality.

On flip chart was a diagram of person in circle.

Brett borrowed the idea from Anthony Phelips to draw on circle lenses with which we observe our surroundings. These lenses are distorted and subjective. It is one reason why people often think there is no Truth: there is only "my truth" and "your truth."

How this relates to Gurdjieff, is that he said a person is made up of multiple "I's" that come from their environment. Another very good analogy in today's language is to call them "programs": something that run automatically without us being aware of them. The programs were put into us by our conditioning. The most powerful of these programs were put there during our deeply impressionable childhood years.

The Gurdjieffiean point of this is that we observe, and interact, with our environment, not with our true self, but with using a variety of distorted lenses, and a multitude of programs that all claim to be the real I, or our true self. Yet these are all artificial constructs of the personality, who are lying when they claim to be the real "I". The real I, or perhaps the "essence" (A word Gurdjieff used too) of a person remains hidden and silent inside.

From this we also get to the key idea of "self remembering" that Gurdjieff taught. This process of self observation is an essential part of the 4th way Work as it is used to observe and identify these false "I's", these artificial programs, that claim to be the real person. One is completely at the mercy of these automatic responses if he is unaware of them. A man cannot begin to change himself until he can see them.

Then what happens next, and I think relates to what stuck in Pekka's mind from coming across Gurdjieff, that this "self remembering" leads to seeing the real "inner" person, instead of just the false personality.

We don't understand each other:

This came up because we noted that if we don't define some of the key words we use in discussion, we easily misunderstand each other, and we don't even realize it!

"no one understands anyone else. Two men can say the same thing with profound conviction but call it by different names, or argue endlessly together without suspecting that they are thinking exactly the same". --from In Search Of The Miraculous

The Three centers of Man
This topic we did not have time to get into, but often in our discussions, the group has made distinctions between things that we do at the intellectual level, and actions and decisions that we make at a different level: the emotional level. Ting has been reminding us also, that there is the physical level: the body too.


Therefore, because of these discussions Brett drew a picture on the flip chart:
The 3 centers of man, also called the 3 lower centers:
Lower Emotional center
Lower Intellectual center
Lower Moving center (sometimes combined with instinctive)

Higher Centers of Man
There was only time to note that Gurdjieff believed that there were also 3 higher centers that complement the 3 lower centers:

Sex center
Higher Emotional Center
Higher Intellectual Center.

We did not have time to talk about those, but Gurdjieff says that a man that does work on himself and advances, can one day get connection with his higher centers. This will make a complete and immortal man.

Conclusion

Gurdjieff was quite different from many of the new age gurus of today, who too often simply teach that emptying the mind and being at peace is the ultimate achievement of man. Gurdjieff taught there was something far more deeper and permanent that a man could reach for. This can be a topic for further study, what Gurdjieff was getting at. I recommend the book In Search Of the Miraculous, as an introduction to find out if that material resonates with you. Obviously this is not for everyone! Is it your kind of study? Or is it a book just to be thrown against the wall?

Final quote, that I did not give at the session but wraps up the thoughts

Gurdjieff: All the people you see, all the people you know, all the people you may get to know, are machines, actual machines working solely under the power of external influences, as you yourself said. Machines they are born and machines they die. ... Even now, at this very moment, while we are talking, several millions of machines are trying to annihilate one another. What is the difference between them? Where are the savages and where are the intellectuals? They are all alike . . . "But there is a possibility of ceasing to be a machine. It is of this we must think and not about the different kinds of machines that exist.

[...]
It is possible to stop being a machine, but for that it is necessary first of all to know the machine. A machine, a real machine, does not know itself and cannot know itself. When a machine knows itself it is then no longer a machine, at least, not such a machine as it was before. It already begins to be responsible for its actions.“

[From: In Search Of The Miraculous, by P. D. OUSPENSKY]

Work and Life Balance - or just LIFE; October 30th

Dance through your life. Enjoy what you're doing, feel your body, its aliveness. When typing on your computer, dance with your fingers!

Rely on yourself: "I am enough". Whatever comes up, my whole life has been a preparation for it.

Don't talk about what you have done, talk about who you really are and what you want to do in the future. Being clear with this will create the future of your dreams.

"Gratitude stone": create a daily ritual of showing your gratitude to what your life already is. Make a habit of noticing what's good in your life.

Blow your beans, create the space where your life happens - where YOU happen. Be the space, be the music, and enjoy!

Some flute music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_soae20uUk

Thank you for your Being!

- Pekka